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Jolanda van Vliet

JOLANDA VAN VLIET

 

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Greece in or out the euro?

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2 years ago by Jolanda van Vliet in Politics > Economy

Very much a European issue. What is the opinion of Europeans? As I see it, a temporary exit is a solution, or Greece can become a third world nation within the union. Debts only can be repaid when Greece reforms its economy on their own terms. Solidarity is the key. As it is even the middleclass can't pay their rent.

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Keep D Change

I think a suspension is the best way. To oust them will have devastating effects on the morale (there isn't any as it is). So the EU has to make it up as they go along because it really has no procedure for this.

2 years ago by Keep D Change

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Linda Wilson

I can't say I'm a Tsipras fan. I like his stance on certain things but the anti-austerity pitch in Greece and his resulting victory always seemed to be the story that people wanted to hear and believe, rather than what needed to be said. What was needed was a regime that was willing to make the unpopular decisions, pay the bills and tighten the belt for a few years.

2 years ago by Linda Wilson

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Jolanda van Vliet

Should it be about being a Tsipras fan? A Greek on a pension can't buy bread as it is. Should he not eat at all, because we aren't Tsipras fans? Any South European country is at risk. They might be next

2 years ago by Jolanda van Vliet

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Jolanda van Vliet

Should it be about being a Tsipras fan? A Greek living on a pension can't buy bread as it is. Should he not eat at all, because we aren't Tsipras fans? Any South European country is at risk. They might be next.

2 years ago by Jolanda van Vliet

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Sabrina

I was in Athens a few years back and the air of depression over parts of the city was just so obvious. Greece is one of the great European heritage nations and dropping them just doesn't seem a good option at all. Russia has its eyes on Greece and the whole situation could get out of control. I'm worried though that the last instalment of 7 Billion will be used up by Greece (if they even get it) without moving it much closer to solvency.

2 years ago by Sabrina

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Peng

It's the old story. Politicians put up a good face but they do whatever they feel like, and the common people have to pay for it. The Euro question is very important, but beyond that is an even bigger issue: Europe must not turn its back; Greece must not disintegrate and be left on its own. That would be the wrong message towards Greece but also the wrong message globally, considering the instability many countries in the Middle East are experiencing.

2 years ago by Peng

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Tracey Howell

Greece should leave before they get kicked out…..because the way it's going they will have 30 years of austerity or poverty and some say even more…….if they go back to the drachma it will be easier to compete and they won't have the debt hanging around their neck…a country can only be the "poor sister" for so long.

2 years ago by Tracey Howell

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voice-of-reason

That's all good and well but all this will further divide Europe and place Greece under Russia's wings even if not officially. The EU is a political alliance as well as an economic one, and the political consideration are as important if not more important.

2 years ago by voice-of-reason

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Jolanda van Vliet

They would still have the debt, in euro's, with the drachme that isn't worth didly squat. Then they will be in debt for hundreds of years. It is not very likely that the Greek gouvernement will choose this as a solution.

2 years ago by Jolanda van Vliet

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James Ellis

Im no expect and no politician but it seems to me that leaving the Eurozone would be like a shock to the system. Thats not nice, but staying might be a slow haemorrage over a period of years, making the economy weaker whilst draining the population. A number of countries never joined the Euro, like Britain Poland and others. Greece probably should have never joined in the first place. Not misunderstand me it will be bloody hard on Greece if they leave but at least they can start to get there life back and start to rebuild there economy at its own pace. Shock or slow drain? I think the shock is better.

2 years ago by James Ellis

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Jolanda van Vliet

It is not a matter of leaving the Union. That isn't even possible, unless a country wants so itself. See Schengen Treaty. It's a matter of leaving the euro temporary or forever.

2 years ago by Jolanda van Vliet

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James Ellis

No I never said they should leave the Union, only the Eurozone.

2 years ago by James Ellis

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pig in the rain

That is what they are talking about now today. Leaving the Euro and EU both. Its very possible.

2 years ago by pig in the rain

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bryanevans

Yes of course Greece is leaving the Eurozone there is no other option. They have a lot of problems to sort out and a lot of changes to make. I hope for the sake of the rest of Europe that these changes are made sooner rather than later. For the last decade and more we've seen an attitude of entitlement from Greece even though it's under performing and corrupt. They can give corruption lessons to Sicily. We could see this day coming for years.

2 years ago by bryanevans

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Norman

I thought the Euro zone was so that together Europe can be stronger. Sometimes some countries supply more when others go through challenges. It seems Greece is being pushed out & bullied just to strengthen the economy of the other countries. Since when is Europe run by the law of the jungle? We seem so civilised but I don't think we are acting very civilised.

2 years ago by Norman

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Mongoose

Typical perspective of some1 who has their opinions sourced by the media without direct experience.

2 years ago by Mongoose

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Jolanda van Vliet

This is only true for a very small portion of the population. Ofcourse the approx. 1% most wealthiest. The fast majority are ordinary people, who work very hard and pay their taxes. That is if they are employed at all. If you are unfortunate in Greece today, and unemployed, there is no social security what so ever, no healthcare and only hope that you can rely on family and friends to help.

2 years ago by Jolanda van Vliet

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Mongoose

Yes there is corruption but the irony is that it's the middle class and working class you pay. They are the ones without options. Whatever happens, those 'corrupt' people will have the getaway cars.

2 years ago by Mongoose

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BENJAMIN

I DONT KNOW HOW TRUE THAT IS. TAX AVOIDANCE IS A VERY POPULAR PAST TIME IN GREECE, I READ FROM GOOD COURCES 75 BILLION AT LEAST ARE OWED. YOU HAVE TAX AVOIDANCE IN EVERY COUNTRY BUT GREECE MAY BE OUT OF CONTROL.

2 years ago by BENJAMIN

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Debbie Anderson

Do you remember the riots around 3 years ago in Cyprus? The banks were closed because people wanted to withdraw all their savings and it was just mayhem. It could be a lot worse in Greece. When people feel they are losing control of their life amd their future there is nothing they will not do. I'm not advocating just another massive bailout but I hope to god they dont drop Greece like a hot potato but show some lenience.

2 years ago by Debbie Anderson

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Ted F

They will make a deal of some sort. There's too much at stake

2 years ago by Ted F

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robbie_t

That's what Merkel says, if they muster the will, and that means in short that a deal can be if Greece says yes to every condition.

2 years ago by robbie_t

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BENJAMIN

THEY ALWAYS MANAGE. ANYHOW THE ONLY PEOPLE AFFECTED BY GREECE'S DEFAULT ARE A BUNCH OF FAT CAT BANKERS.

2 years ago by BENJAMIN

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Br0dude

d germans don't want greece 2 exit cos it looks bad and nobody wants tht sort of failure rite now when things look on d up a bit. they r politicians & hav to bark a bit & bark a bit more bt when rubbr meets road der will b some sort of a back room deal sorted. plus havin greece exit mite b actually pretty expensive 4 europe as a whole. in short dey will pull somthin tht looks like a rabbit out of d hat b4 d curtain falls.

2 years ago by Br0dude

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Peng

A deal now fortunately seems in the works. Pensioners are getting like 350 Euro right now in Greece. If that was me i would just leave the country.

2 years ago by Peng

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Jolanda van Vliet

It's only €300.- unfortunatly. For a pensioner in Greece today it's the question whether he, or she, will eat today.

2 years ago by Jolanda van Vliet

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Norman

I think its risky for Russia to be the big saviour now. It could have been Germany

2 years ago by Norman

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Nicole C

Yes but the UCB have now agreed to invest more money in Greece.

2 years ago by Nicole C

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Mongoose

I think that's so silly. Trade is free, why is that a bad thing just because Russia may not be perfect?

2 years ago by Mongoose

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BENJAMIN

HOW YOU MEAN IT COULDVE BEEN GERMANY

2 years ago by BENJAMIN

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bryanevans

How this will be handled will have a big impact on all of Europe. Italy is not far behind and Spain and Portugal are not so far behind Italy. Everyone in the EU has to be playing by the same rules. Most of you know I'm not in favour of the EU exactly but a lot is depending on this.

2 years ago by bryanevans

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M.  Hughes

If Greece does not receive the hoped for bailout from its creditors by 30 June, it will be unable to meet the next repayment of €1.6bn to the International Monetary Fund and could be kicked out of the E-zone. This much we all know.

Now only Flabouraris, who is close to Tsipras, but others in the inner circle are quietly confident a deal will be reached soon. A teleconference between Tsipras and Jean-Claude Juncker, which presumably took place yesterday, has so far not been commented upon. The Merkel-Hollande united front have thus far shown little lenience.

With the Greek government being under pressure on the one hand by a frustrated and exasperated population, 25% of whom are out of work, and on the other hand by impatient and frankly furious company of creditors, this may be Greece's darkest for centuries. The government seems to not be able to give much to either side except promises. Some believe that this hour precedes a glimmering day break, other feel sure that a deeper night is shortly to follow.

The latter prediction may well be correct, but I feel that in the short term Greece will survive within the Euro zone. Why? First, some form of monetary assistance is likely to be extended by Russia following the recent Tsipras-Putin talks. Secondly, Greece's creditors have likely reconciled themselves to the fact that Greece will never fully repay the monies owed. Landing Greece in a deeper ditch is unlikely to produce a more favourable result, and so the strategy is to maximise returns by skilful use of sticks and carrots. Internal devaluation within the Greek economy has reached a perilous low. Europe's economists are seeking a pragmatic way to prevent the bottom from falling out entirely. Because when the bottom falls out, it will fall on all of us.

2 years ago by M. Hughes

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Jolanda van Vliet

No country can't be kicked out of the Union, unless it wants to. See Schengen Treaty. The rest of your arguments are food for thought.

2 years ago by Jolanda van Vliet

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Sabrina

I don't know why everyone is being so optimistic. In my minds it's by no means certain that any deal is secure. Deals are only reached with mutual benefit and acceptable risk. And I don't think either is there, so I'm worried for Greece on Tuesday.

2 years ago by Sabrina

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Mongoose

I have friends in Greece & they are more than worried.

2 years ago by Mongoose

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Jolanda van Vliet

I feel, when push comes to Shove, the Union will not let Greece down, because else they will never see one cent back from their loans. Greece could just default, go back to the drachme for a while, bankassets still can be in euro's, deal with inflation for a while (won't make the poor poorer then they are already), start building their economy, restore economic growth and then the EU and IMF will at least see some of their money back.

2 years ago by Jolanda van Vliet

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Braden  Kelly

I would love to be a fly on the wall in the negotiation chamber today!

2 years ago by Braden Kelly

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Niti C

I read somewhere today 'The marriage may endure, but even more unhappily than before'.

2 years ago by Niti C

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that-acorn-girl

Don't you hate these cheesy new phrases? Grimbo, Grexit? Enough already

2 years ago by that-acorn-girl

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Norman

Or Grexident

2 years ago by Norman

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Linda Wilson

When this crisis blows over after some solution is chosen, there is a big question mark that remains over the single currency. In the future, other crisis Greek will ariser because the Greek problems are deep rooted and reforms will probably not happen fast enough. There are other shaky economies in the Euro zone.
Other currencies that were backed by more than one country have failed in the past and the Euro has seen the beginning of it's end I think. The Euro had some smart policies on paper but in practice they are very difficult to carry out without a lot of political damage.

2 years ago by Linda Wilson

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M.  Hughes

Which policies are you referring to that are hard to carry out without political damage?

2 years ago by M. Hughes

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M.  Hughes

Anyone offering confident predictions of the outcome of this saga needs to be viewed as less than credible. One gets the impression that some sources have access to an oracle beyond the clouds. There are multiple variants, unknown quantities and unresolved problems at play, each with their various representatives with vested interests. Some of these problems include corporate income tax, value-added tax, labour laws, pensions, public sector finance policy, and investment policy. And that is just the tip of the iceberg. A long-term, or even medium term solution is far from secure, though hope remains.

2 years ago by M. Hughes

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James Ellis

What is Tsipras solution? He wants to raise taxes. Austerity or no austerity still comes down to the same thing, the people will have to pay.

2 years ago by James Ellis

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voice-of-reason

There's only one real way forward and that is renewed investment, however unrealistic that may sound. Increased taxes will simply lead to further shrinking the economy and an increase in debt.

2 years ago by voice-of-reason

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Sagalicious

Everybody book your hols to Mykanos and Athens. Let's help these people out. It is one of the nicest places on earth.

2 years ago by Sagalicious

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bryanevans

Greece is has been far too reliant on tourism instead of industry. Our holidays are hardly going to help.

2 years ago by bryanevans

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bryanevans

As long as Syriza is in power I don't see any hope for Greece. They came into power because people thought they could write the debt off. They tried to restructure it but failed. They should have asked for the repayment time to be lengthened instead. Tax is still not being collected from the corporates. The economic foundation is still shaky at best.
What Greece needs is a government that knows how to breathe new life into a country and attract investment. These guys are bureaucrats and pen pushers living in an age that has passed already.

2 years ago by bryanevans

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Princess Geena

I would go back to the drachma, work hard to pay off the debt, and join the euro again. When Greece is back to the drachma it has more control.

2 years ago by Princess Geena

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Peng

I suppose you mean that Greece, when out of the Euro zone could switch to the drachma, and pay off the debt in stages. There are some problems with that scenario. It's not a matter of printing the monies necessary, converting them into Euro, and making payments. The debt is in Euro, and converting the monies requires someone who is willing to buy the drachmas. The offered rate then defines the conversion rate. With the condition of the Greek economy, the rate would be disappointing. Printing more is not going to solve that, it would simply cause the drachma to devalue more, and that's how inflation spins out of control. In recent days, similar things have happened in Sierra Leone and one historic example is Germany after WWI. It can be a very dangerous situation.

2 years ago by Peng

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Old man Ehlers

The referendum is a cynical move to put the onus on the Greek population. Tsipras hopes the population will reject the creditors conditions, and afterwards he can say 'dont blame us people you chose it remember?' Syriza can wash its grubby hands of responsibility and carry on.

2 years ago by Old man Ehlers

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Debbie Anderson

It's horrible to see this, the banks closed and the panic and fear. My heart goes out.

2 years ago by Debbie Anderson

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Jolanda van Vliet

I 'm so gratefull for all the input and different perspectives all of you gave to the debate I've started. It shows that, no matter what political conviction, people do care. I feel this is hopefull. Through it all I did ask myself; how about our personal Feelings, from one human to another, from one family to another and so on. Regardless of all the political bs, what can we do as people to help the Greek people? What if it was about ourselves? Would we care about arguing politicians? Or would we worry about what to eat, how to pay for needed healthcare, rent, utilities and hope somebody would help us? Like Michael Jackson sang: "what about us".

2 years ago by Jolanda van Vliet

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Tracey Howell

Thx for posting Jolanda….

2 years ago by Tracey Howell

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voice-of-reason

I'm going on holiday there. Seriously. Greece will be more dependent on tourism now than before because it's internal economy is in the shutter. We can't influence corporates, but we can do something individually.
Looking at the whole picture, maybe Greece will become a cash/barter society in the short term. Loans & credit as well as credit cards will be out for some time to come, it seems mad.
On the other hand, when things become cheaper in Greece, this will attract a certain amount of trade because cheaper prices make Greece an attractive trade option. So there is hope, even if Greece leaves the Euro Zone.

2 years ago by voice-of-reason

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Jolanda van Vliet

We are going in september to Greece to see if there is anything we can do for an individual or a family. We already know it's not ever going to be enough. Hopefuly more people will do the same.

2 years ago by Jolanda van Vliet

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Jolanda van Vliet

We are going in september to Greece to see if there is anything we can do for an individual or a family. We already know it's not ever going to be enough. Hopefuly more people will do the same.

2 years ago by Jolanda van Vliet

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Selena  Roberts

Lovely idea, Jolanda. Do you have family over there?

2 years ago by Selena Roberts

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bryanevans

I hope that the population votes YES on Saturday. Greece needs a problem solver that will put the country back on track.

2 years ago by bryanevans

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Sabrina

Talks are still going on, don't jump to conclusions

2 years ago by Sabrina

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Old man Ehlers

Too many people live in a bubble, even here. Unless politicians stop living for today and start thinking about tomorrow, when it comes there won't be money to go round, but plenty of blame instead. Blame for breakfast, lunch, dinner & deserts.

2 years ago by Old man Ehlers

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Nicole C

Seriously? The payment delay rejected. What country is going to keel over if that 1.6 Billion doesn't come in tomorrow? Oh no wait a minute the country that has to make the payment is ALREADY keeling over and half dead. Ok so you guys are not going to be generous. At least a little patience then? No. Or any human virtue maybe?

2 years ago by Nicole C

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Braden  Kelly

Even if - when Greece leaves the single currency, it will recover. Angentina's economy grew by about 8% annually after the dollar peg ended in 2002. I have no doubt that Greece will get on its feet, whether they will go to the drachma or to a parallel euro.

2 years ago by Braden Kelly

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Norman

Yes Greece will live who would expect it to disappear from the map. But the creditors are huge multi nationals that really don't need the money without delay. They are just acting like a playground bully because Greece is trapped in a corner.

2 years ago by Norman

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Linda Wilson

I don't think that's a fair comparison. Argentina was a growth market and developing during that period. I really doubt if Greece has the same scope & mobility economically.

2 years ago by Linda Wilson

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pig in the rain

Regardless, these guys are set to oust Tsipras. That is the agenda and they are set to knock him out by whatever means

2 years ago by pig in the rain

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Mitchell Hill

Varoufakis' terrorism accusation is a bit rich really, but just shows you how far passions are rising. These guys must be near breakdown by now.

2 years ago by Mitchell Hill

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Sabrina

The IMF has taken a dent through all this. It was their judgment that led them into the Greece deal, I doubt if they did their homework really, and then for the last month they have just been wishy washy and are looking a bit ridiculous.

2 years ago by Sabrina

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Old man Ehlers

The momentum is now with the Yes vote. Thia outcome will spell havoc in the Greek government.

2 years ago by Old man Ehlers

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Rahul  N.

Make that No, sir. In my opinion anyhow. Though it will mean a new currency very quickly. I think people will play with the Yes idea but they will opt to side with the government.

2 years ago by Rahul N.

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Sabrina

Its extremely close, nothing can be said right now.

2 years ago by Sabrina

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Selena  Roberts

If one day before the referendum the high court is going to decide on its legality, you get an idea of how rationally and orderly things are running at the moment.

2 years ago by Selena Roberts

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Frisbee

If peoples money is not safe in their own accounts there will be all hell to pay.

2 years ago by Frisbee

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Selena  Roberts

I wonder if the results are out today?

2 years ago by Selena Roberts

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that-acorn-girl

So the NO vote won

2 years ago by that-acorn-girl

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Braden  Kelly

almost 7 out of 10 young people voted No. It shows how differently the Greeks see themselves from how others see them. I see the vote as a rejection of the crusty and demanding EU bosses but also it's a huge vote of confidence for Greece, for the Greek people and their ability to repair their own country.

2 years ago by Braden Kelly

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Old man Ehlers

So the Greeks insisted on following Tsipras like a band of lemmings to the No vote. They can feel gratified today.

2 years ago by Old man Ehlers

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Rahul  N.

Greece, have done with it and return to the drachma. Turn the present Euros over to the banks. You will be more competitive in trade and tourism, which is a big draw in any case. Because you Grexit doesn't mean you can't Grejoin.

2 years ago by Rahul N.

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Linda Wilson

After the months long toxic process, I don't think Greece will rejoin the currency any time soon.

2 years ago by Linda Wilson

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Felipe

I think this is right. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33421521 Greece does not want to vacate and other countries don't want Greece to vacate. This will make all country weaker.

2 years ago by Felipe

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Penner

Greece has to learn to collect taxes, most of their problems would be solved if they did. So does Britain.

2 years ago by Penner

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Rahul  N.

Looks like a temporary exit then..

2 years ago by Rahul N.

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Sabrina

Not so fast, nothing's decided yet

2 years ago by Sabrina

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Linda Wilson

There is a deal. This is good news.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33503955

2 years ago by Linda Wilson

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Tracey Howell

It's very ironic……the "victory" is that Tsipras to push a drastic austerity program…….market reforms, pension and privatisation reforms….and he got into power on the agenda to avoid all that……some Greeks will feel cheated by the outcome.

2 years ago by Tracey Howell

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Norman

Agreekment reached :)

2 years ago by Norman

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Selena  Roberts

At least the banks will be open tomorrow and people can resume their lives.

2 years ago by Selena Roberts

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bryanevans

More borrowing, more spending: it's not good news. Not good for Greece, nor for Europe.

2 years ago by bryanevans

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Tracey Howell

I have a huge issue with this deal….even Tsipras himself said that he signed it but does not believe in it……in short Athens has to up VAT, do pension reforms budget cuts and banking laws need changing…..some of these things will be beneficial but some not……it seems to me that this deal is even worse than the deal they were offered two weeks ago, as if the whole country is being punished……Greek government assets over 50 billion can be grabbed and sold off, how can a deal like that stand? people are going to revolt against that sooner or later…….no wonder people are comparing it to the Versailles treaty although the Germans are dismissing that…..there is a limit to what people can take….when you go beyond a certain limit bad things can happen, you break people's back nothing good will come of it……I don't think it's a good deal at all, and no good news…and the cuts, are they going to help? 25% of people are already unemployed and the number is higher when you look at the younger generation….what's needed is real value to be added and not more chokeholds……what is bad for Greece is bad for the rest of Europe because like it or not we are all connected.

2 years ago by Tracey Howell

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The Oracle

So you think Varoufakis is right, that Greece is now a slave state. Of course there is truth in it but isn't that always going to be true when you are deep in debt?

2 years ago by The Oracle

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Felipe

rioting

2 years ago by Felipe

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Pete Davies

They feel betrayed cos they were betrayed. Just sayin.

2 years ago by Pete Davies

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